league. we need a long term solution to drill gone dollar problems, not short term band aids. plus, what a waste. we'll talk to the senate episcopal fire brand tom coburn about a damning new report how uncan he sam wastes your dollars over and over and over again on the same darn thing. also, to the shores of tripoli we go. new debate about our country's role. maybe even a military role in the libyan revolt. should we be arming rebels in the east? should we be scrambling our own fighter jets to clear a no fly zone? what do you think? show starts right now. breaking developments at this hour in the budget showdown. some call it a budget charade. and if you look at the numbers,

that's pretty much what it is. whatever you want to call it, it's on capitol hill and it's on every state level or every state governor's mansion in this country in the u.s., house of representatives right now. a vote underway to avoid a partial shut down of the federal government when currently authorized money runs out on friday of this week. the senate expected to pass this extension bill after the house does. the extension trims a grand whopping massive total of $4 billion from the budget. you'll see how poultry that number is in a second. keeping the lights on for just another two weeks in the process, the republicans arguing 4 build is$4 billion is a down much larger cuts to come. >> if there had been a conversation about it this ten days ago or two days ago, we might have had something to talk about.

but the fact is we were forced to move on our own. >> by threatening a government shutdown, unless we move forward with their two week proposal, you essentially are putting the american people hostage. you could do that only so many times. >> so they like to play with billions p. the united states, however, facing a $1600 billion deficit this year alone. divide the number four into 1650 a 00 and you'll see what we're talking about. our total debt, $14,000 billion. they like to call that a trillion. states can't print money like the federal government can. that means that governors like wisconsin's scott walker are targeting america's teacher,

firefighters, judges and cops. mr. walker unveils his plan to close a $3.6 billion deficit. bear this mind, all of this while washington continues stunningly along with the u.s. media, i might add, to turn a blind eye to mounting evidence of recklessness and outright fraud on wall street. that fraud, the one responsible for the massive spike in unemployment, the massive decline in the value of u.s. housing, you add those two things together, that's what they call revenue in the government. your tax revenue is driven by the value of your housing stock and the level of economic activity employment in your state and in your country. so shame on all of us to indulge a system that would torpedo the foundation of american finance, housing and unemployment. let those who cause the problem

off scot-free and then try and take it out on the teachers. the man who helped to uncover so much of this evidence is on this very program yesterday afternoon. >> all over this country $11 trillion of wealth wiped out. 27 million americans without jobs, can't find full-time work, stopped looking for work. 4 million people who have lost their home to foreclosure. consequence there, but not on wall street. >> and the evidence of fraud is rampant whether it's the dip stick tests or for that matter the violations of sarbanes/ox y sarbanes/oxley. the budget negotiations continue to up fold while ignoring all of this. luke, where do we stand this will afternoon? >> right now we're on the motion to recommit, which was the democratic's last chance to try to derail this budget fix. they offered an amendment that

would cut subsidies to oil companies. republicans ultimately will defeat this and stand in unity because they want their version of a budget fix to go forward. it's usually what you see the majority party always tries to defeat the motion to recommit. so what you'll see essentially is this passed the house today, it's $4 billion. it's a two week budget fix. it will go to the senate and harry reid said it will be passed within the next 48 hours. so essentially what we're going to see is a temporary $4 billion in cuts to the current fiscal year 2010 budget which will then expire on march 18th and what's the conversation we're going to have in the next few weeks up until march 18? will there be a government shut down, whether there be a government shut down. republicans want $61 billion in cuts from the current fiscal year 2010 budget. the senate has already said that is not going to happen in any way. they're going to have to reach

some sort of agreement to overt a shut down. does this put some sort of band aid on the problem as you said earlier? absolutely to get to that march 18th date, but things are being cut in the $4 billion are things that president obama wanted to be cut. things like the smithsonian institution legacy fund, a broadband loan subsidy, other types of earmarks that went through for health care centers and highway. things that democrats were okay with. going forward, democrats are not going to be okay with a lot of these things. it's going to be interesting what things they will have to cut. but remember, broad point here, this is only 15% of the entire budget. this is nondefense discretionary spending. so if you want to compare it to medicare, medicaid, social security, defense spending, not comparable. very small portion of it, dylan. >> thank you so much, luke. and joining us how with a bit of perspective on on the budget battles in this country, former california republican lieutenant governor. jason will join us momentarily.

how is it that we can have a budget debate where we deal in -- forgive my french -- fleas on a dog's behind when the problems are trillion dollar problems, housing problem, employment problem, our health care is twice what it should really cost. and we're sitting here saying we're going to cut your $24,000 pension. >> dylan, i'm not surprised. i've been in sacramento for 14 years and politicians have a tough time making tough decisions. they're just afraid. right now they just pushed it down the road a little bit, they kicked the can down the road. now they're going to have the same problem in about two weeks and we'll go through the whole -- get your job done. you want a cut, start cutting. you want to look at borrowing, look at borrowing. you want to look at revenues -- put everything on the table and let's move forward. ten years ago when i first came in, i was you to get your job

done and congress can't do it. >> what about the media's role in framing the debate and ignoring the collapse in housing and ignoring the role role that unemployment plays in driving revenue and basically playing into the charade of the debate that is the three nickels and a chicken for a teacher or firefighter. >> the teachers and firefighters have made it very clear actually in wisconsin and other places they want to participate in the conversation. and i think everybody should be on the table. big business should be at the table. big mortgage banks should be at the table. get it this resolved. we know we have a crisis. >> but you and i know the problem is the total lack of accountability. they know they can get away with punting on every play and the people they're supposed to hold these people to account are the people with my job, the people in the media across the board. and i'm trying to figure out how much blame rests at the media's

feet for allowing these a in an begans to go on. >> you have legislators in safe seats and they with k. go back home and say i voted no and hoor ray and you have other member, hey, i voted yes. but guess what, this deficit continues to get bigger. you said it,it, $1.6 trillion. if you say it fast, it doesn't sound like a lot. america has said enough is enough. they did it in sacramento. they did it in the last elections. people are angry. get your job done. listen, i've cast some tough votes. votes that i didn't want to do. but i was elected to govern. i want elected to punt the ball. >> but if you look at the reason for the budget shortfalls, look at the wisconsin situation, look

at the drop in housing prices, look at the spike of unemployment, look at the same numbers in california or new york, i look at that data and then i look at the cost of health care which is the underlying problem whether it's medicaid, medicare, the pension system. i do not care. and i look at our health care system which costs double any other western nation that doesn't have competition, that does have a fee for service doctoring model that ratchets up the price. how is it that we can say we're going to cut this, cut this, but not address the thing that's causing the housing problem, not address the unemployment problem and not address the un-american structure noncompetitive, nontransparent that is american health care? >> that's why the problem is bigger than just the budget today. we need to have a congress that can sit in the room and not call each other names and theyky k. say, okay, listen, we were elected to be adults and get this job done. i've been in situations where

firefighters and teacher, they want to participate. business sometimes wants to participate. but you have the situation wher parties that didn't let people come together. and when that happens, you get. >> referee:s that will never look at revenues and democrats will never look at cuts. so you have deficit spending. and that's worse than anything. >> and because the people that be we're borrowing from, our children's children, are the one constituency that is completely unrepresented in the room. >> if members of congress would operate like they're operating in washington at their home, they would be broke, too. they need to operate in washington like they operate at home with their family about. they know how to cut back at home. they don't know how to cut back in the federal government. they're afraid. >> a little accountability from the media would go a long way. >> and the media, absolutely. >> and an open primary. >> welsh donl well, don't go th with me. >> thank 230s paying us a visit.

coming up here, closing the circle around gadhafi. should america provide arms to the rebels? or at the very least, should america scramble fighter jets off of our aircraft carriers just north of africa to create a no fly zone. what do you think? she felt lost... until the combination of three good probiotics in phillips' colon health defended against the bad gas, diarrhea and constipation. ...and? it helped balance her colon.

oh, now that's the best part. i love your work. [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health. but these days you need more than the book. you need website development, 1-on-1 marketing advice, search-engine marketing, and direct mail. yellowbook's got all of that. yellowbook360's got a whole spectrum of tools. tools that are going to spark some real connections. visit yellowbook360.com and go beyond yellow. just got more powerful. introducing precise pain relieving cream. it blocks pain signals fast for relief precisely where you need it most. precise. only from the makers of tylenol.

we're taking no options off the table so long as the libyan government continues to turn its guns on its own people. libya could become a peaceful democracy or it could face

protracted civil war or it could descend in to chaos. >> the u.s. sharpening its message as the crisis in libya continues to develop sending in some of our own marines, defense secretary robert gates announcing a short time ago that two warships will be arriving in the mediterranean for humanitarian help along with 400 u.s. marines. meanwhile lots to talk about today in the creation of a no fly zone over libya should we, shouldn't we, can we, can't we, in an evident to try to keep gadhafi from bombing his own people. the pentagon warns it's easy to say, harder to do. >> you would have to remove the air defense capability in order to establish the no fly zone. so in illusions here, it would be a military situation, it wouldn't simply be telling people not to fly airplanes. >> lawmakers in the u.s. have even suggested that we start

providing aways to the libyan rebels. what should the u.s. response be if the end game is democracy not just libya but throughout the middle east? let's bring in karen finney, susan delpesio, and jimmy williams. it doesn't get much more delicate than this. how do you influence it without spoiling it? >> that's the line that this administration has been trying to walk. and they did a great job the first week of egypt and libya, but they seem to fold under public pressure. they need to keep their options open of course, but they really need to keep their mouth shut. they shouldn't necessarily feel that they have to respond just because the american public is saying we should do this or we should do that. and i think our strategy is best kept under wraps for right now and we have to -- if we are going to do anything military, it will be very dangerous for the united states. let's face it, they don't want us in the middle east.

>> karen, we watch david cameron go to egypt and say, listen, we support you. we are with you. we don't intend to control you or influence you. but we believe in what you believe in and we want to help you. an incredibly effective flil posturing for the uk. it's not clear that the united states has the luxury of being able to walk that path. >> well, i think that's exactly right. and remember that in libya, it is a much more dangerous situation in that we have a dictator who is willing to fire on his own people, who was hiring people to come into the country to kill his own people. and even some of the talk about if we were to talk about arming some of the rebel, okay, who? which ones some which will ? which group will take over? so i think the administration has done a good job of making it clear that we will be if i were, but that every option does have on to stay on the table.

because let's be honest, we don't have the money to send troops in and get engaged in a ground war in the middle east right now. we're already in two countries. >> jimmy, how do you look at this from a strategic standpoint? i guess what i mean is the worst case scenario for the middle east and for us is a failed state. the dictatorships can be abhorrent, the monarchy in saudi arabia leave as lot to be desired. the risk for everybody is a failed state. is there anything that you see that can be done by western allies, period, to mitigate that risk? >> well, yeah, we can do exactly what it is that we are doing. i heard what susan said, which is -- she said that the first week of the egypt, we did great, the first week of libya, we did great. and now we're not doing so great. i think you just showed a clip of secretary clinton and she laid out about 75 different scenarios. i'm not sure what part of we're

keeping all of our options open that we're not keeping open, first. second, the middle east seems to not work for us. every time we go and get involved in yet another country somewhere in the middle east because of let's just say it oil, we tend to get in trouble. should we arm the will i be begans sf karen just said it. who? i don't know. and i don't think anybody else knows. should we have armed the could you bancubans? how many times do we give arms to people and then they turn on us. >> that's why exactly we shouldn't be probably having this as a public discourse. this belongs within the white house, within the situation room. and they don't need to have to fold to public pressure. >> i got that. and i understand that. but i think i just heard people on the house side, republicans on the house side, saying the president isn't showing the leadership on this issue.

why has he been quiet. at least the press certainly was. so damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. bill clinton every time he got into trouble, he seemed to go bomb somebody and the republicans would say he's trying to detract from his personal matters. so what is the president supposed to do some no matter wh? no matter what he does, your side criticizes. >> having worked in the white house, just in the same way that we learned after egypt, there's a lot being discussed but a lot more goes on behind the scenes that we won't know about for years. you're criticizing what's being said publicly and i'm supgting to you that you don't know the whole story and you're making a critique based on partial information, not the full picture. >> what i'm saying is they shouldn't be paying anything publicly besides we're going to

keep our options open. the fact that we're talking about should we have a military option in the middle east as jimmy said, we don't come well there. i would respect the administration for not informing us because they have some tough decisions to make and you're right, they are doing it and we don't know what they are doing. >> but remember over the weekend, youed that the united nations talking about the options, as well and it's obvious it if that were to happen, the united states would be a part of it. your guy john mccain said that america leads. how come we're pot leading. we should have gone in will before when the administration said we don't want to go -- sorry. >> no, it's fine. i was enjoying the conversation. you had a good conversation. you know what seems to be one of the best leading indicators over there, though, is the saudi arabian stock market. for all of our attention to the price of oil and commodity which is affects us here in the west,

when you look inside the financial markets of the middle east where the people on the ground as you and i both know know a heck of a lot better what's going on in those countries as far as the economic future of those countries than anybody in america or in the west knows, how do you interpret a sawed day rainian stock market that was down 7% today. >> 7% is a huge number. here's what we do know. the price of oil is high. the price of gas is high. the united arab emirates is broke. they're having to take loans from their members. the middle east at the end daft, people cut back when it's too expensive. if we cut back, then guess what they're going to do. they'll stop selling oil and then they'll be economically in trouble. they have been building taj mahals and big massive hotels and their okay paccupancy rate something like 16%. you can't float that kind of commercial and residential lending unless you have money coming in.

you just can't do it. if you don't ask me, ask the american residential market. so the point is it's not working out so well for them and if they keep increasing the cost of oil, we're going to top buying it. >> something for everybody at home to watch. the saudi stock market is a canary in the coal mine and those people have a lot better handle on what's going on in the middle east than any of us do if they are sealing stocks. to the tune of 7% on the day, that's a heck of a sentiment indicator. thank you as always for a smart and spirited conversation. we appreciate it. as we take a moment here, we'll go a break. but don't go heading for the bathroom even if you've got to go. i want you to wait. it might help your decision making. we'll explain after will. last year. (oof). i had a bum knee that needed surgery. but it got complicated, because i had an old injury. so i wanted a doctor who had done this before. and unitedhealthcare's database helped me find a surgeon. you know you can't have great legs,

if you don't have good knees. we're 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. ♪ four decadent flavors. 60 calories. it's me o'clock -- time for jell-o.

that's a coffee and two pills. four decadent flavors. 60 calories. the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. just 2 pills can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lara who chose 2 aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels. if you were about to take a bathroom break, i was hoping

that you held it. we're breaking down a new study, a sign tifrk sucientific study,, showing that people who really have to pee actually make better decisions. researchers gave people a whole lot of water so they really, really had to pee. and then asked them to make a series of choices, choices with short term rewards, long term expenses, and long term rewards. for example, they asked them key is that they had to p event e really bad, asked them would you rather have $16 tomorrow or 30 bucks in a month. and according to the journal of psychological science, participants with a fuller bladder were more likely to hold out for a bigger pay day. focuses on the mind. so let's think about this. if controlling your need to pee makes you better at long term

decision making, maybe we should lock all the bathroom doors in the capitol building and start shipping water. something to think about. still ahead here on the dr show, what a waste. a new report on how uncle sam is burning through our tax dollars and don't even really know how they're doing it. maybe a plan more important tloi do something about it. a conversation with tom coburn after this. [ female announcer ] sometimes you need tomorrow

to finish what you started today. for the aches and sleeplessness in between, there's motrin pm. no other medicine, not even advil pm, is more effective for pain and sleeplessness. motrin pm. isn't some optional pursuit. a privilege for the ultra-wealthy. it's a necessity. find investments with e-trade's top 5 lists. quickly. easily.

use pre-defined screeners and insightful trading ideas to dig deeper. work smarter. not harder. depend on yourself the one person you should trust to take charge of your financial future. e-trade. investing unleashed. of some of the annoying symptoms menopause brings. go it's one a day menopause formula. the only complete multivitamin with soy isoflavones to help address hot flashes and mild mood changes. one a day menopause formula. [ female announcer ] wake up to sweetness with honey nut cheerios cereal. kissed with real honey. and the 100% natural whole grain oats can help lower your cholesterol. you are so sweet to me. bee happy. bee healthy.

what do you say we weed out some of the waste? does the government even know how it spends our money? the government accountability office uncovering billions in waste and stunning amounts of overlap between federal agencies not once, not twice, but sometimes 20 times over. for example, catfish in america, they get the vip treatment. two completely separate agencies tasked with monitoring catfish. i like catfish so i don't mind a little attention, but it seems somewhat excessive.

20 different programs meantime charged with helping the homeless to the tune of $2.9 billion. imagine trying to get something done with 20 different agencies. who is actually in charge of that? and we're all for fixing the economy. but right now we have 80 programs on four separate completely differently funded agencies, each tasked with economic development. it's waste that tom coburn says makes us look like jack asses and that's a quote. he says no wonder we're $14 trillion in the hole. and just before the show we caught up with senator coburn. he wrote the legislation demanding that the gao i had pie waste and overlap so we could all see it and then recommend how to get rid of that waste and overlap as last year's debt limit vote now comes up on friday. i began our conversation by asking what the report showed

us. >> what it shows is there's at least $100 billion a year that we could save in discretionary programs if congress did its job. it's a tremendous indictment for what's happened under both the republican and democrat control in the congress. and that's an absence of oversight, an absence of doing the job that the american people expect us to do. >> the thing that really strikes me and it goes back to pick up on our last conversation is this, what can you do about it. you are a u.s. senator. you've identified this problem. we're getting more information. what can you do about it? >> well, fortunately or unfortunately, i've offered many of the amendments that are listed in here to cut spending over the last four years. and they have been voted down. and i think now that the american public is going to get an opportunity to see what i said was true, i think that the opportunity for us to actually

highlight and him mate some of the duplication could be very real. when you've got 47 job training programs costing $18 billion a year through nine different agencies, and we haven't done anything about it, and the factor is we don't know if our job raining is doing any good because there's no metrics on it, if you have 80 programs -- let me read you a couple. 173 tax depeexpenditures tha. how much of it are we duplicating for the same thing some there's programs like $58 billion on 100 separate programs run by five different d.o.t. agencies, department of transportation agencies. we've got a multitude of nutrition programs. we've got 56 plans -- or 46 programs that tell and teach how to be good stewards with your money. we don't know how much it costs

and that's across seven different agencies. the fact that we're teaching that and we can't even practice the thing that we're trying to teach through government plans? it's ludicrous. >> and the list goes on and on. we have $177 billion in contracts granted this iraq since 2002. tens of billions. the more you read, the more disgusted you're capable of making yourself. am i wrong to think that before we start cutting this program or that program that there's a step before that, that is a thorough review of how we make all these decisions so that we don't just start willy-nilly cutting particularly when some of these cuts -- it's mice to save a few billion and it's good politics, but it doesn't really solve our problems and don't we really need some sort of a bipartisan review of how we do job training programs, how we do catfish monitoring, how we handle

homelessness, et cetera, et cetera, so that you have a review of the agency structure before you get into what you spend and what you cut. >> i think there's two things. one is a lot of it we've already done the oversight. we did it in the federal financial subcommittee in 2005 and 2006. you have to oversight, one. but you can save money tomorrow by streamlining he's agencies and combine them even with the same goals. we have duplicate sets of bureaucracies doing exactly the same thing. >> but how do you fix that. i guess the question anybody at home, anybody in america reading this is asking, what can you do senator coburn with our other american senators and your colleagues in the house to end that duplication? >> you force the congress to do the oversight. and so -- which is something we should have been doing all along. now that i'm not a chairman of

the committee, i can't force those actions. but i think the american people will force it. do you the oversight and find out the information. the second thing you do is you don't pass any new laws unless you put metrics and a force that you have to go and see did the law bliaccomplish its intended purpose and is itle valuable in terms of accomplishing that purpose versus what it costs. here's what actually happens in washington. all these are well intended programs. the motivations behind them are pure. whether it's democrat or republicans offering them. what they don't do is the hard work to see what's already out there. so when they hear of a need, the first thing that happens is they offer up another bill to do something to meet that need without ever looking at the other 46 programs that are supposed for be doing the need. and the rope is so they can get the pats on the back at home. and we're past the time and we don't have much timeeope is so t the pats on the back at home. and we're past the time and we don't have much timeaope is so get the pats on the back at home. and we're past the time and we don't have much timesoope is so get the pats on the back at home.

and we're past the time and we don't have much timenope is so n get the pats on the back at home. and we're past the time and we don't have much timepe is so th get the pats on the back at home. and we're past the time and we don't have much timee is so the get the pats on the back at home. and we're past the time and we don't have much time is so they get the pats on the back at home. and we're past the time and we don't have much time with which to change this. so we have to markedly reform what we're doing. we're borrowing $3 billion a day right now against our children, and our grandchildren, and there's no way that we can allow ourselves pot to start going after this in a timely and prudent fashion to accomplish some real savings and still accomplish the goals that were intended under these programs. >> if about somebody watching this show wants to provide the encouragement to their leadership to do what you're describing, who are the individuals, who are the committee chairs in the senate, who are the chair men in the house of representatives that have the power to do this? >> every major committee in both the house and the senate if they were to hear the chairman, if they were to hear from a bipartisan group of their constituents as well as across the country, him mate the telim duplication now. and this is only a third of the discretionary budget that has at least $100 billion worth of waste in it a year.

now prks we gif we got the whol neighbor wouldn't be $300 billion, but $300 billion over the next ten years is $3 trillion. that's big change. and the timeliness of it is we need to be doing it now. and so to force that oversight. every committee has an obligation to do oversight. very pew of them do it. so we need to get the members of congress in gear to do what they're being paid to do, which is to look at programs oversight and measure their effectiveness and change them if they're not working. >> senator, thanks as always for taking the time for educating us a little bit. and know that obviously you have our whole hearted support in any efforts to try to end the duplication that is obviously rampant inside of our government right now. thank you, senator coburn. >> good to be with you, dylan. up next, merging man and machine. they call it the singulairity. is that a good thing for you? is it a good it hinge for us? and how close are we?

perhaps much closer than you might think. and we're back after this. and still no one knows the sun life financial name. 145 years of financial stability that changes today. i hear you're the clown in charge. so, cirque du soleil becomes... ...cirque du sun life. because soleil means sun.... (gibberish)

i'll take that as a yes... sooner or later, you'll know our name. sun life financial. with heart-related chest pain or a heart attack known as acs, you may not want to face the fact that you're at greater risk of a heart attack or stroke. plavix helps protect people with acs against heart attack or stroke: people like you. it's one of the most researched prescription medicines. goes beyond what they do alone by helping to keep blood platelets from sticking and forming dangerous clots. plavix. protection against heart attack or stroke in people with acs. [ female announcer ] plavix is not for everyone. certain genetic factors and some medicines such as prilosec reduce the effect of plavix leaving you at greater risk for heart attack and stroke. your doctor may use genetic tests to determine treatment. don't stop taking plavix without talking to your doctor as your risk of heart attack or stroke may increase. people with stomach ulcers or conditions that cause bleeding should not use plavix. taking plavix alone or with some other medicines, including aspirin, may increase bleeding risk,

which can potentially be life threatening, so tell your doctor when planning surgery. tell your doctor all medicines you take, including aspirin, especially if you've had a stroke. if fever, unexplained weakness or confusion develops, tell your doctor promptly. these may be signs of ttp, a rare but potentially life-threatening condition, reported sometimes less than two weeks after starting plavix. reported sometimes less than two weeks somewhere in america, there's a doctor who can peer into the future. there's a nurse who can access in an instant every patient's past. and because the whole hospital's working together, there's a family who can breathe easy, right now. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest healthcare questions. and the over 60,000 people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers. but you can still refinance to a fixed rate as low as 4.75% at lendingtree.com, where customers save an average of $293 a month.

call lending tree at... today. but now, to get it really cooking, you need a little website development. some transparent reporting, so you know it's working. online ads and 1-on-1 marketing consultation. yellowbook's got all that. yellowbook360 has a whole spectrum of tools. the perfect recipe for success. visit yellowbook360.com and go beyond yellow. if you thought you were watching somebody think as a way to drive a car, you were.

that's brain driver. a new system developed by german scientists that allows you to control an automotive vehicle, a mechanical device, with your thoughts. just the latest step towards the explosion of artificial intelligence and ultimately the merging of man and machine into a single collective concept of problem solving emotional relationship and potentially perpetual existences lived out inside of bor gcgs of some kind. that's the idea behind the film tran send dent man. he says we're approaching a point called the singularity where computer intelligence will surpass our own. and then increase exponentially from will this. >> the pace of change will

somebody astonishingly quick that you won't be able to follow it unless you enhappens your own intelligence by merging with the technology you've created. >> the good news, we will be melding with the computer's to integrate ourselves in to those systems. so instead of being a threat to you, you will be part of the intelligence and will be able to relate and make decisions with the benefit of the finest most integrated set of information that has ever existed on this earth. sort of a if you can't beat them, join them concept for us. and joining us now is the director of the film available today on itunes and it's a pleasure to welcome both of you. congratulations on the film. ray, in a nutshell, tell me why i shouldn't be scared out of my

mind. >> the merger you're talking about is already under way. when i was a student, i have to go across campus to get to the computer. we now carry them in our pockets. and we use them to expand our human potential. we have being a stoves much of human knowledge with a few key strokes. it's not just the wealthy who have them. half the farmers in china have these mobile devices. 30% of africans have some kind of mobile device to communicate with and access information. and they're growing exponential exponentially. that's the key message. and the software is also progressing. look at how watson could play jeopardy and deal with subtle issues of language. so we're making progress both hardware and software. we'll reach human levels bhi 2029 rngs but as was just pointed out, it's not an i wial invasion from mars. we're using them to expand our

own reach. >> why did you make will movie? >> i wanted to reveal ray's ideas. i think hers tthey're the most d found that we've had to grapple with and let people know everywhere about what's going to transform their lives.grapple ww everywhere about what's going to transform their lives. >> what strikes you as the more profound aspects? >> you talked about ai. there is nothing more profound than ai. intelligence is the most powerful agent in the universe. so if we can increase our intelligence, that's a powerful thing to be hold. but you talked about the iphones. just imagine diagnosing your medical ailments with an iphone for example. what will that mean to our -- >> health insurance companies will not like that. >> well, these are disruptive times and a lot of billion dollar corporations will come into existence quickly and go out of existence quickly going forward.

>> ray, how do you envision the merger? i say in the introduction that man and robot will combine. you're saying that the total exponential expansion, where basically the collective intelligence is grart than the aggregate is coming. how do you envision that integration in a way that is rewarding for human life? >> well, we do it right now in that we carry computers with us. there are some people who have computers in their bodies and brains for conditions like parkinson's or an experimental diabetes implant. we're shrinking technology. it will be blood cell sized in 25 years. we'll introduce this technology into our bodies and brains hugh the bloodstream, it will keep us

healthy from the inside. go inside our brain, butt our brains on the web, take advantage of vast amounts of cloud computing, bring direct communication to search engines and to all of knowledge and we'll be able to expand our in-it tell against very iin- int intin tell against very intimately. >> so much disruption implied by what you're discussing, whether the insurance health company,ag. >> so much disruption implied by what you're discussing, whether the insurance health company, banks, uprisings in the middle east. all of these things massive disruptions. that doesn't come without a fight as we are seeing in the deficits, as we're seeing in the political sphere. how do you envision managing the potential disruption along the

way to innocent victims as those who are most threatened try to protect themselves? >> look at recent history as a good guide. i'm not a utopian. but fundamentally it's democrati democratizing. you can have a kid at harvard with his $1,000 laptop create space book. you can have a couple of kids at stanford create google. a kid in their dorm room can create a whole orchestra with their pc and a keyboard. look at three revolutions just in the last few weeks. i wrote in the '80s that the union would be overturned by the then emerging social network and that's exactly happened. so i think it's fundamentally democratizing in terms of expanding human potential. >> how do you envision -- i agree with what ray is saying, but i'm wearing witness and we all are to the desperate acts of

self preservation. >> i believe in a phenomenon known as the wisdom of crohl's. so as more and more of us connect, the totality on our humanity i think will prevail. and i would point out that a child today or young person in africa who has access to the internet or a smart phone has access to more total knowledge than our u.s. president did just 15 years ago. that's a powerful thing to consider. p. >> congratulations on the movie. ray, thank you for giving us some of your time and articulating your thoughts with us here. >> my pleasure. >> this man 19 honorary doctorates, awards from three u.s. presidents, member of the national invent tors hall of fame, advocate of the singularity and subject of the

film. out on iflt tunes today. we take a momentary break. coming up on "hardball," regular man chris matthews talking torous holt, the lawmaker who beat ibm super computer watson on jeopardy. we'll see how much longer the biologically inclined can hold out. but first the charlie sheen confessions, what the rambling fascinating tv interviews of a man who is not going to take it anymore tells us about america's celebrity culture. a very special surprise guest, the kerry gracar cary grant of after this. % and they care enough to get to know you, too. nobody sells more real estate than re/max. visit remax.com today. her morning begins with arthritis pain. that's a coffee and two pills.

the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. just 2 pills can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lara who chose 2 aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels. is a fun way to hydrate. that's a choice you can respect. ♪ other choices...not so much. [ pbht! ] capri sun roarin' waters. host: could switching to geico 15% or more on car insurance?.

host: what, do you live under a rock? man: no way! man: hey rick check this out! anncr: geico. 15 minutes could save 15% or more on car insurance. with listerine® whitening plus restoring rinse. it's the only listerine® that gets teeth two shades whiter and makes tooth enamel two times stronger. get dual-action listerine® whitening rinse. building whiter, stronger teeth.

i just won't do it. i will not believe that if i do something then i have to follow a certain path because it was written -- it was written for normal people, people that aren't special, people that don't have tiger blood. >> charlie sheen talking about his unique powers. powers that a normal brain as he puts it simply cannot understand. a huge story of course out here on the west coast and one that reveals a lot not only about america's celebrity culture, but the tension that exists in the entertainment business and the incredible appeal of even a high priced talent making the decision to tell the man to shove it so to speak. if you were watching the new martin bashir show this afternoon before we went on, i promised you a great guest. i call him the kerry grant of truth telling. nobody nearly as handsome or

courageous as you are, sir. explain why you think charlie still is get popular support, good popular appeal, sort of tapping into the crew the man energy. >> your introduction to me aside, which is highly inaccurate and i'll issue a lawsuit in the near future -- >> good if my brand. >> charlie sheen has adonus dna. your segment talked about the collusion of high technology and humanity. and he believe that's is the man mess tags of the future condition of humanity, one that sees in to everything, goes beyond the natural instincts of the body, and that's why he's saying what he is p. now, that may be an ego issue, it may be something else, with you you have to remember he has

been at the center of one of the most popular television programs in america. if you're on television, that has an enormous effect on the population's affect for you. and that's why i think a lot of people feel as they do. he's at the center of one of the most popular shows. >> and then martin, i feel like a guy where -- the guy next door is a neighbor that i like who is going to put in a swimming pool for me to swim in. tell us about your new 3:00 show and what you're doing to the thab ho neighborhood. >> we're just trying to cover stories that you do in a broad sense, news and current affairs, everything from politics to the playboy mansion. we're trying to give the viewers a range of issues and trying to do it in a penetrate difference way. we featured a by today who run as website called